let's add that he's an icon in this medium. He's never been demanding or disrespectful. But when Brian came in, he wanted Michael out of AMC for years! Can you imagine? And Michael's very sensitive. Me? Not so much! Yes, I'm sensitive to other people's feelings, but I'm more of an armadillo! It's hard to get to me? but after being so full of resentment over how Michael was treated, along with myself and superstars like Susan Lucci, my anger was all built up, and when he cancelled AMC and ONE LIFE on that day, I blew up.
And I don't regret it. It wasn't an out-of-control explosion. I knew exactly what I was doing! In fact, I thought about it for about five minutes first before pressing, "send," but after realizing the worst thing that could happen would be nothing; and the best thing that would happen is that I would speak for everyone who can not speak up! For me, it was all about integrity and speaking the truth. And letting everyone know that Frons did come there with an agenda. Did you read his parting statement where he said how proud he was of what he accomplished at ABC Daytime? OK: We really need to put you in a rubber room now, Brian! Are you kidding me? What did he accomplish? He decimated an entire genre and left millions devastated! I was happy to speak out. If you have feelings, get them out, that's what I always say! It'll get you if you don't?.
Amen, sistah! It was nice to hear you speak out because some of us were doing this all by ourselves - and to have someone confirm and echo our concerns was so satisfying! I mean, I devoted my TV Guide column for the past five years to exposing the truth. It was a lonely life!
Yes, you did!
The cycle of abuse ABC inflicted on its stars is just disgusting and unforgivable. To threaten their right to free speech with a nine-month coma or a pink slip is just so unnecessary and sad. What's the psychological impact on stars like Michael and Susan, especially after having been a part of the soap DNA for so long - and now being thrown out as if they were yesterday's garbage?
After playing a character for so long, I'm sure they are missing their characters but I think they're also feeling a great deal of relief because they're no longer working with this man. I mean, Brian Frons was a tyrant. He was abusive in that passive-aggressive silent way. It always got back to an actor that he didn't like them and wanted them off the show. It gets back to us. We have too many friends on the inside for us not to know. It all got back to us. Listen, we're the hard-working class of entertainment, people: we're not demanding a million dollars an episode like the cast of FRIENDS. These people did not deserve to be treated the way they were, and that includes myself, too; even though I don't put myself in the same category of a Susan and Michael.
How does Susan feel? If I had to guess, I bet Susan is happy she's not around that toxic environment and person anymore. I know for a fact that is how Michael feels. It's really tough to go into work every day when you know a company doesn't want you there - and they decimate your character on a daily basis!
Did the actors really believe ABC's bullshit when they denied canceling these shows year after year and dismantling the show?
I can guarantee you that the actors did not see the writing on the wall. I know that for a fact. They were being told from the horse's mouth that the show was safe. ABC was never honest. We know now that ABC was looking for show replacements when they moved AMC out west.
I guess ABC knows how to hypnotize people, too! Or serve delicious Kool-Aid!
There's a very big difference between hypnosis and trance. Hypnosis feels great?. What ABC did was simply lie. When a person of authority in your life tells you something, you tend to believe them because that's how real professional relationships work. And these weren't real relationships, despite their use of terms like: ABC Family. No family exists there. None. In a family, you are told the truth and there is a safety factor. Let me make something clear: show business isn't a safe or secure business, but I do still think the entertainment industry can be run with integrity. Look at the sheer bad PR the network got from the way Frons handled this.
When did you see the writing on the wall? Because you're a smart cookie?
Well, I saw the writing on the wall when I left the business. I didn't have any emotional attachment to it anymore? but like you, I saw the writing on the wall from the way they were writing the show, the hiring of hack writer after hack writer, keeping ineffective producers employed?. If ABC were serious about saving these shows, they would have brought in capable talent. It's not rocket science! It can be done? but they chose not to. An executive can't be that stupid. In my opinion, it was extremely calculated to cancel these shows. Frons also has zero creativity and no talent, of course, which made him the most perfect and apt person for this job in ABC's eyes. In my opinion, it would have been just as easy to save these shows, too. Take the last week of AMC, for example, it could have always been that good. Unfortunately, the writers were bound and gagged - and couldn't do anything but what Frons wanted.
Some critics still maintain there wasn't a calculated effort to kill these shows.
Well, is it fair for us to say it feels like, smells like, moves like, looks like a calculated effort?
Yes.
All right. But it's also fair to say, because this man's ego is so out of control and so massive, that he really did think he was doing a good job, too! [Laughs] It could be either way. I could easily put three personality disorders on him, but I won't, even though all three of those disorders result in not caring about anyone else but one's self. He thinks he's creative and smart, but he's not any of those things. He should be an accountant.
Let's not insult accountants! [Laughs] Was he involved in firing you back in 2007?
Yes. I had absolutely had no idea that was the end of my character. None. Here's where my unresolved issues came from - even though they are resolved now: There are people who should have let me know the truth, even if I do see why they might have been scared to tell me, but I don't excuse anyone's bad manners. Here I am working my tail off, even though I was on recurring status, which I loved! Recurring really worked for me because I was writing my book. I got a house in L.A. and I was happily commuting. I never once turned them down when they needed me on the set. In fact, that's why I kept an apartment in N.Y.: solely for that purpose because I was working as much as if I were on contract. I refused to have my salary per episode cut, because they wanted to cut that by 55 per cent, which is why I opted for recurring status. Yes, I understood I didn't have vacation rights and I would lose my guarantee, but the trade-off was perfect because I went back to school, etc. I paid for all my own travel? it never cost them a dime in production to keep me on recurring status.
So when my last show came when Lindsay was sentenced for the murder of Spencer Truman, I walked out of that studio that day, saw Ron Carlivati in the hallway - and he said nothing. Nothing! I didn't go say goodbye to Frank Valentini in his office that day because I didn't think it was my last day. I had no idea. No one had told me anything.
When I read it two days later on a cover of SOAP OPERA WEEKLY, I was pissed. I had been so good to this company by going on recurring. It also put me in a really bad situation because I had just signed a new lease on my apartment, so I had to pay for that apartment until I could find someone to sub-lease it from me. Luckily, I finally put Mark Lawson in the apartment, who needed a place.
Had they had enough respect for me and integrity in the themselves, all they had to say was: "Listen, we're putting Lindsay in prison in a month or two month's time and it'll be the last we see of you; so if you have to get anything in order, do so now." What's so hard about doing that? To this day, I'd like to get an answer to that. It was very hurtful to me. I couldn't get over it because it was like, "Wow - why wouldn't you be honest with a model employee who has worked for your company for 17 years?" I couldn't even throw myself a goodbye party and say goodbye to the crew. I mean, I didn't get a chance to say goodbye to the crew! I never saw them again.
Right now, I don't care because after a while you have to make these people dead to y
ou, because in a way, the truth is that normally the only people who have the power to hurt you are the people you care about in life. Other than that, who cares? You have to be an armadillo - or you won't experience any joy in this life. But I did care about those people.
I cared a great deal about Ron and Frank. Listen, I've been in the foxhole with those guys. The thing that got me was I walked in Ron Carlivati's picket line during the writers' strike in the freezing cold to show support him; and yet, he couldn't even give me the courtesy of a head's up!
Yeah, he can be like that sometimes. And Ron could have easily got Linds off that murder because she was defending Blair's life.
Yeah, but I understand why Linds went to jail. That wasn't Ron's fault. Brian wanted me off the show. It was that simple. No one owes me a job or a career, but yes, Ron and Frank owed me respect. I'm a human being? and I speak for actors everywhere. It's free? it doesn't cost anything. It's very easy to give out respect.
When I went back recently, I was hoping I didn't have to see Ron or Frank - unless they apologized. At the time, I couldn't wrap my mind around the "forgetting part," even though I had forgiven them. And luckily, I only saw Frank. He was really good to me. He was really loving. I could see a lot of stress on him. I considered Frank to be a friend. I know him very well. We were friends before he was my boss. Even though I was hoping not to see him, I'm glad I did because it helped our healing process. I even wrote a letter to Frank after the whole ONE LIFE experience, which was really nice.
I didn't see Ron - and I was OK with that. I don't dislike Ron, and I'm not angry, I was just hurt. My thing was: If I have enough respect for you to walk in a freezing picket line on my lunch hour, well, I feel like I was owed the same courtesy and respect.
Having said that, I understand and know how much Ron did for me in the past, in terms of writing me in as best he could and under the radar from Frons; and that counts for me, but I want an apology for not saying goodbye to me when I walked out the door for the final time. I mean, everyone knew?. You and I both know SOAP WEEKLY has a two-week lead-time and the issue hit the stands two days after my final tape date!
I'm really big on truth, integrity and communication so it really bothered me. Luckily, I got over everything.
For more on Hickland's must-read interview, make sure you buy UNCENSORED's BETWEEN HEAVEN & HELL: A ONE LIFE TO LIVE TRIBUTE book, out next week. In it, she explains why her favourite soap to watch, ONE LIFE, is the most toxic set she's ever worked on; if the set is haunted; why Lindsay is her favourite role; how she's offering up her production company to anyone who wants to reboot ONE LIFE and AMC; working with her favourite co-star Hillary B. Smith; and her thoughts on DIRTY SOAP.
For more information on the tome, e-mail
[email protected].
ONE LIFE TRIBUTE:
SOAP VELVET
One of the genre's most iconic and talented writers, Josh Griffith, remembers his time on ONE LIFE
For many, ONE LIFE's golden era occurred from 1991-1994 when Emmy award-winning SANTA BARBARA scribe joined forces with soap newcomer, acclaimed novelist Michael Malone.
The odd couple yet inspired duo not only brought the daytime drama back to its riveting social issue roots, but they also evolved the art form to new artistic heights.
And the ratings skyrocketed almost immediately.
Yes, write it and they will come.
Together, Malone and Griffith proved that long forgotten philosophy will always work.
In honour of ONE LIFE's untimely demise, UNCENSORED caught up with the talented co-creator of SUNSET BEACH and former co-executive producer of Y&R to find out how he's grieving the loss of Llanview, what the future holds, and if there really was a conspiracy to end the daytime serial.
How is ONE LIFE's cancellation affecting you, someone who impacted the series' DNA forever?
I got really sad when I heard the news. I've worked on a lot of shows, but ONE LIFE has a very special place in my heart. I feel so connected to the show in ways I don't feel connected to other shows as strongly. It's devastating.
When there was a possibility that ONE LIFE would continue, like everybody else, I got excited. I still think that is where TV is headed - and the Internet is wide open for future shows. My initial reaction was: "Oh, great - ONE LIFE is going to do it by taking that big leap and we'll all be able to follow them." But then it was a double disappointment when it didn't work out.
Were you surprised ONE LIFE was cancelled - or were you expecting it? I mean, I've been sounding the death knell for the past two years.
I was surprised. I had a feeling we would suffer another cancellation, but I felt it was going to be ALL MY CHILDREN. I was surprised they were both cancelled. Then, of course, the ironic surprise is that after ONE LIFE was cancelled the show keeps getting better and better - and the ratings keep getting better and better.
Are you watching the show?
I do. Not every day, but I check in when I can.
That's what happens when there's no network interference! But I'm still surprised the show got away with a lot of network commentary/criticism in their FRAT ROW story.
Right. I think once the decision was made to cancel the show? I mean, what is ABC going to do? It's not like they can step in and slap them. They're already cancelled. I'm glad ONE LIFE is going out in a blaze of glory. In a way, it's the best revenge.
How did you get into this crazy, wacky world? Were you a soap fan?
I started on SANTA BARBARA. That was my first show. That show made me a soap fan. When I was a kid, I watched DARK SHADOWS, and I was addicted to it, but I didn't watch any others.
And how did you get hired on SANTA?
I got SANTA BARBARA when my dad was dating one of the show's scriptwriters. Because of that, I started watching it, and I got so hooked on the show that I decided this is what I want to do! I always wanted to write? and SANTA BARBARA's quirky, eccentric sensibility really appealed to me. Immediately, I started writing sample scripts/stories. A terrific scriptwriter, Lynda Myles, helped me out with something I felt confident I could send into the show. And I did. Chuck Pratt and Anne Howard Bailey were the head writers, and Jill Phelps was the executive producer at the time, but I lived in New York. They told me they didn't have any script writing openings but they did have a breakdown opening. Unfortunately, the breakdown writers had to live and work on the west coast, so on a trial deal, I drove myself out on my own dime. I got out there, wrote my first outline, and then the writers' strike of 1988 happened! So, I got my dream job, but I suddenly had to go on strike for six months! But when that was over, I really fell in love with soap opera through my work on SANTA BARBARA because it's a never-ending story.
Would you say that ONE LIFE could rival SANTA BARBARA in the annals of history? I see a lot of similarities, especially in the humour department.
Absolutely! SANTA BARBARA opened the door for a show like ONE LIFE to delve into that kind of humour. SANTA was so ahead of its time, but only now that weird, wild quirkiness is now accepted. If SANTA were around now, it would be the number-one rated soap.
And SANTA BARBARA and ONE LIFE were both cancelled before their time. What was Brian Frons like when you worked with him on SANTA?
When I was there and he was the network head (he left before the show was cancelled), things were going really well. He seemed to really get the show and supported it. Brian really pushed the show into the quirky world. He was a proponent of that. Jackie Smith came in after Frons and she tried to pull it back and shoot it back more to a traditional soap.
You won two Emmy awards at SANTA.
Yes. I also have one from ONE LIFE and one as Y&R's co-executive producer when we tied with GUIDING LIGHT.
Don't remind me! [Laughs] After SANTA, when did you jump to ONE LIFE?
I went right from SANTA to ONE LIFE. I was at SANTA for about two weeks while Paul was there, and then I got a call from Linda Gottlieb, who wanted to meet me. She came out to L.A. and we h
ad a conversation. She wanted someone who knew the soap world and could pair with Michael, who had never done soaps before. At first I said no, because my wife had just had our first child and we just bought a house out in California. We kept saying no but she kept coming after me! Finally, I told my agent to ask Linda for something outrageous just to get her off my back - and she said yes to everything we asked for! And I had never watched ONE LIFE before. The first time I met Michael was when I joined the show. For the very first moment we talked story we were in sync. Our connection was so strange because Michael's favourite movie is GONE WITH THE WIND and mine is BLUE VELVET! How did we ever get along? I dunno? but it worked out amazingly well.
You guys were a dynamic duo, much like "Cartini."
Very much so.
Did you guys struggle with the soap narrative format? I remember your initial story: a short-term arc involving a battered wife, which got bad reviews. I didn't mind it?
Yeah, that was our first story, and that didn't work out the way we wanted. We got the wheels turning with the short-term arc stories. But Michael took to the form right away. He didn't really have a long learning curve. We were lucky because we had the unconditional support of Linda, who was fearless. She would say to us, "Just do it; and I'll fight the battle." Without her, we wouldn't have done most of things we did. She went head-to-head with the network whenever there was a worry or concerns.
Who was helming ABC Daytime then?
Pat Fili Krushell was there for a little bit, but then Mickey Dwyer-Dobbin came in. Mickey supported us with a lot of our stories, but then with Marty's rape, which ended up being one of the best stories ever told, well, she was nervous about it.
Social issues were a part of ONE LIFE's DNA. Was it a conscious decision to tell those kind of stories again?
It was a conscious choice to get back to Agnes's vision. We looked back its history and the genesis of the show. ONE LIFE had a lot of social heart and soul. We knew we had to get back to that. During the '80s, ONE LIFE went off in a whole different direction.
And your ratings were great, right?
God, the ratings we had back then don't even exist now! When we started the show, we had a 4.3 household and a year and a half later, we had a 6.5 rating.
Holy fuck!
Today, if you can raise ratings two tenths of a point that's huge. But, of course, viewing habits and patterns have changed dramatically.
I love Linda Gottlieb! She reminded me of Gloria Monty. Linda had balls. Yes, Jim DePaiva probably didn't like her?
A lot of people didn't like her!
Being a leader isn't about making friends. I admired her immensely for having the writers' back and not meddling. Today, everyone fancies himself or herself a scribe! I would kill to see her helm a show in today's climate and landscape.
Listen, she could drive you crazy! She certainly could drive Michael and I crazy. But the thing is: Linda believed you had to hire the best possible people you can and then let them do the job you hired them to! She had opinions about the story but she let the writers write. Once she put her stamp on it in terms of what we needed to accomplish, she knew the train was moving quickly that at some point you have to get out of the way. If you meddle too much, the whole thing falls apart.
And you won the Emmy for Best Writing right out the gate, right?
Yes. We won for the 1993 season in 1994.
I still can't believe you guys won right away because you know how slow the industry is to reward talent in the right year. I'm still shocked that was the only time you won for ONE LIFE. Michael was more of the star in your partnership. Did that bother you?
No, because I don't like being in the spotlight. I understood what was going on? here's this famous novelist coming in to this world; I knew that would be the headline.
As for the Emmys, I'm always surprised because there's always other possibilities. You know the Emmys, they give you an award for a snapshot of the bigger picture of work. Of course, we were thrilled to be recognized. For us, it was more important that the ratings went up because we wanted to deliver stories the audience wanted to see.
As long as the cheque cleared, right?
[Laughs] Exactly! Yeah, right! Well, as long as the stories were good. I was there to help the head writer, Michael, out? and I think I did. We were lucky to develop a real-life friendship, which was a bonus.
I first fell in love with ONE LIFE reading a year's worth of DIGEST synopses when I was vacationing in Portugal as an early teen. When I finally flew across the pond, it was love at first sight. That was during the Paul Rauch years? and that inspired me to become an entertainment critic/journalist. In my education, you and Michael came along at the right time. You helped with my understanding of the writing narrative structurally and contextually as I was just entering university. While I viscerally understood the form, you and Michael helped me really intellectualize the soap writing form. Heck, you even named your three acts of a story. It totally blew my mind because I had never seen that done before. [Throws off fan girl hat]
It was a very fertile, creative period. One of the high points of my career.
Any favourite moments at the ONE LIFE studio?
One of my favourite things to do was to walk the sets each morning before I got to my office. Sit in the Llanfair living room or walk through the police station? just to feel connected to Llanview. Writing in studio is a much better way to write a soap opera than being 3,000 miles away. Though during our second ONE LIFE stint, Michael and I took turns being at the studio while we worked from home but our first stint, we were always writing at the studio.
I don't know how the Y&R writing team writes as a satellite.
Yeah, you definitely lose something if you're not present.
What kind of pushback did you get from telling Billy Douglas's coming out story?
It was a tough sell. That was the moment when Linda really went to bat for us. We knew what we wanted to do and how to make it powerful and strong. And what made it strong was it was more than a social issue. It was a story about parents and children. Fathers and sons. The whole situation with Sloan and Andrew. It was a story about forgiveness and compassion. Not just about homophobia, but about everything. One of the things that made the story so powerful was that it transcended the social issue.
You and Michael are credited with rebooting the show with the creation of Todd Manning from Frat Boy No. 2. It was a happy accident, but did you know at the time that Todd would drive story until its cancellation?
It was never our idea that Todd Manning would become Todd Manning. He was just supposed to be one of the frat boys who was supposed to rape Marty and maybe go to jail. But a combination of possibilities and what Roger [Howarth] brought to the role made us realize, "Wait - we've got gold here."
Did you guys name him Manning without knowing the history of the show?
No, we went from Frat Boy to Todd and then to Manning once we realized what we could do with the